LOG OPENED Thu Oct 06 21:30:23 2011
21:30 <@   greg-g> good
21:38 <@   greg-g> hi there!
21:59 <@   greg-g> yo!
21:59 < p2pu-matt> hey
22:00 <@   greg-g> :)
22:00 < p2pu-matt> I see Tim and I successfully guilted you into coming ;)
22:00 <@   greg-g> yes, yes you did
22:01 < mattsenat> brb
22:03 < mattsenat> back
22:05 <@   greg-g> yo yo
22:05 <      tvol> hi greg-g
22:05 <@   greg-g> as mattsenate said, you two successfully guilted me into coming :)
22:06 <      tvol> guilt is a powerful tool
22:07 <@   greg-g> so, can I ask which article we're going to work on the next few weeks? Or, am I asking the wrong question?
22:07 <      tvol> i dunno it might not be one article. 
22:07 <@   greg-g> ah
22:08 <      tvol> greg-g what were the candidates?
22:08 < mattsenat> I was talking to Tim about this
22:08 < mattsenat> my original suggestion was to take up articles individually
22:08 < mattsenat> but the idea of collaborating is on the table
22:09              greg-g nods
22:09 < mattsenat> especially since I always envisioned groups working on shared interest articles
22:09 < mattsenat> I'm excited about the Open Education article
22:09 <@   greg-g> I like collaboration, it might make it easier for me, selfishly
22:09 <@   greg-g> ditto re the OE article
22:09 <      tvol> greg-g what i'm doing your work?
22:09 <      tvol> haha
22:09 < mattsenat> maybe us three at least can take it on?
22:09 < mattsenat> yeah haha -;)
22:09 <@   greg-g> yeah, I was thinking it made sense for us, given our interests/knowledge
22:10 <      tvol> lemme see this open ed article. 
22:10 <      tvol> you mean
22:10 <      tvol> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_education
22:10 <      tvol> ?
22:10 <@   greg-g> hey, I just don't want to do a whole FA myself ;)
22:10 < mattsenat> yeah, I don't think one can do that easily 
22:10 <      tvol> or, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_educational_resources
22:10 < mattsenat> but it's important to ask that question "What does this take?"
22:10 <@   greg-g> yeah, either one/both
22:11 <      tvol> the OE article is more of a portal
22:11 < mattsenat> @greg-g btw, do you know how to save this IRC chat history?
22:11 <@   greg-g> from that web interface no, but I have logging on automatically in  my IRC client (I'm kind of always on IRC)
22:11 < mattsenat> @tvol, which it absolutely shouldn't be!
22:11 <      tvol> mattsenate not exactly but i'm using Colloquy on the mac and I think it saves automatically? 
22:12 < mattsenat> yeah I'll run a client next time to save it
22:12 <@   greg-g> no worries
22:12 < mattsenat> cool
22:12 < mattsenat> so 
22:13 < mattsenat> Open Education is so ripe
22:13 <@   greg-g> very, I can smell it from here
22:14 <      tvol> may be true, but how do we approach this? 
22:14 <@   greg-g> so, I don't want to assume what our next steps are, but, should we think about a plan of attack for how to improve the article?
22:14 <@   greg-g> ok, I said what tvol said, just in many more words
22:14 < mattsenat> awesome, that's our topic for today
22:14 < mattsenat> "ways of editing"
22:14 <      tvol> ok
22:15 < mattsenat> let's do some background
22:15              greg-g nods
22:15 < mattsenat> first let's check out the discussion page
22:15 <@   greg-g> whoa, do you think that first comment is from Cathy Casserly?
22:15 < mattsenat> apparently there's been a discussion about merging with the OER article
22:15 < mattsenat> haha, you can find out ;)
22:16 < mattsenat> all-star alert: Stephen Downes comment!
22:16 <@   greg-g> :)
22:16 <      tvol> haha stephen downes alert
22:17 <      tvol> wait so in the discussion it's not tracked by user unless you proactively add that info, eh? 
22:17 < mattsenat> correct!
22:18 < mattsenat> if you use ~~~~
22:18 <      tvol> outputs username, no?
22:18 < mattsenat> timestamp, user name, talk page links
22:18 < mattsenat> a "signature"
22:18 <      tvol> this discussion page is kinda hilarious. are they all like this? 
22:19 < mattsenat> some of them ;)okay so this article has been debated since 2008, and has most recent comments from last year!
22:19 < mattsenat> now let's take a look at the history page and see this article
22:19 < mattsenat> or better... Wiki Trip it!
22:19 <@   greg-g> wiki trip?
22:20 <      tvol> i see 1 mattsenate
22:20 <      tvol> 1 cablegreen
22:21 <      tvol> what are the bots?
22:21 < mattsenat> http://sonetlab.fbk.eu/wikitrip/#|en|mattsenate
22:21 < mattsenat> there are a lot of bots out there
22:22 < mattsenat> I'm not sure which ones and what they do
22:22 < mattsenat> lemme take a closer look
22:22 <      tvol> wiki trip isn't working when i throw that domain in there. is it because https is enabled?
22:22 < mattsenat> btw AlexKozak worked on this!! CC and free culture alumn
22:23 < mattsenat> lol woop
22:23 < mattsenat> s
22:23 <      tvol> ahh i see mike linksvayer too
22:23 <      tvol> from cc
22:23 < mattsenat> http://sonetlab.fbk.eu/wikitrip/#|en|Open%20education|1254303233|1
22:24 <@   greg-g> tvol: when did mike edit it? I don't see his
22:25 <      tvol> you gotta look at the extended contributions
22:25 <      tvol> not just the first 100 
22:25 <      tvol> oh crap
22:25 <      tvol> i'm looking at /oer
22:25 <      tvol> my bad
22:25 <@   greg-g> hah, gotcha
22:26 <      tvol> so, this article is a little more manageable size wise than /oer
22:26 <@   greg-g> so, we need to figure out how the two articles relate, how we want to frame the OE one
22:27 < mattsenat> awesome suggestion
22:27 <      tvol> hey mattsenate what does the m mean after the username in the edits?
22:27 < mattsenat> and in fact, we may also want to do a couple of searches and check out the "see also" section
22:27 <@   greg-g> like, right now it feels a little schizo
22:27 <@   greg-g> m == minor edit
22:27 <@   greg-g> I htink
22:28 <      tvol> yah
22:28 < mattsenat> this searching is especially important if we're creating a new article
22:28              greg-g nods
22:28 < mattsenat> because hey, maybe it makes more sense to write a new section
22:28 < mattsenat> or perhaps the article exists by a slightly different name
22:29 < mattsenat> either way, it will help contextualize our work and help us be narrow and specific
22:30 <      tvol> is the "see also" just anyone's conception of related articles?
22:30 <@   greg-g> indeed. like this Free education article, there is a section on free education on the internet that is related, while Free education itself really isn't so much (based on the definition provided, just state funded education)
22:30 <@   greg-g> tvol: yah
22:31 <      tvol> imo open education would be the broader philosophical and pedagogical discussion, whereas /oer would be the more specific article about content
22:31              greg-g nods
22:32 <@   greg-g> what about "open source curriculum"
22:32 <@   greg-g> I've never heard that term before
22:32 <@   greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_curriculum
22:32 <      tvol> i would dispute the initial def that /oe refers to "educational organizations"
22:32 <@   greg-g> ditto
22:33 < mattsenat> me too
22:33 < mattsenat> in fact, I think a good general definition includes the multiplicity of what "open" means
22:33 <@   greg-g> yeah.
22:33 < mattsenat> and that it is related to a social phenomenon, a movement
22:34 < mattsenat> but before we get too deep on the content
22:34 < mattsenat> a few more logistical points
22:34 <@   greg-g> so, we have Open education, OER, and Open Source Curriculum. these 3 are pretty darn related and need to be teased out. 
22:34 < mattsenat> we've started to explore the space, but now let's make our presence known!
22:34 <@   greg-g> ah, sorry
22:34 < mattsenat> no worries
22:34 <@   greg-g> :)
22:34 < mattsenat> we'll get to that today 
22:34 < mattsenat> tvol, you should make this comment as an activity
22:34 < mattsenat> go ahead and leave a note on the discussion page under a "new section"
22:35 < mattsenat> that explains that we're looking at improving it
22:35 < mattsenat> and that we'd like any notes or feedback from folks "watching" the article
22:35 < mattsenat> maybe even recognizing that the point of this article existing has been clearly made
22:35 <      tvol> mattsenate ok
22:36 < mattsenat> and greg, since you probably haven't seen it yet
22:36 < mattsenat> check out our course page and grab the "student project" banner template
22:37 < mattsenat> and throw it on those three articles ;)
22:37 < mattsenat> lemme link you
22:37 < mattsenat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:United_States_Education_Program/Courses/Wikipedia:_Aim_for_Featured_Article
22:38 <@   greg-g> the talk pages right? not hte main page
22:38 < mattsenat> yes
22:38 < mattsenat> thanks for the check lol
22:38 <@   greg-g> :)
22:39 <@   greg-g> done
22:41 < mattsenat> osm
22:41 <@   greg-g> :)
22:42 < mattsenat> greg, let's read some of the discussion and history of the other articles
22:43 <@   greg-g> word
22:43 <      tvol> ok i think i added a note
22:44 <@   greg-g> nice
22:44 < mattsenat> great, let's summarize any substantial conversations/thoughts/ideas we have concerning the article on its talk page
22:44 < mattsenat> just so we keep it documented and anyone who cares is in the loop
22:44              greg-g nods
22:45 < mattsenat> okay before we finally bite into these articles
22:45 < mattsenat> I just wanted to share some of the depth of article editing here
22:46 < mattsenat> what we're doing is the community-defined collaborative tasks that facilitate our successful participation in the Wikipedia project
22:46 < mattsenat> it's not always necessary
22:46 < mattsenat> but it's a good way and rule of them to ensure success
22:46 < mattsenat> thumb*
22:47 < mattsenat> and this goes really deep, see for example the elusive WikiGnome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Gnome
22:47 < mattsenat> some folks self-identify as a "behind the scenes" type of editor
22:49 < mattsenat> hey anna!
22:49 < p2pu-apgo> hey, how's it going in here? 
22:50 < p2pu-apgo> I actually forgot the class was  happening at all... I feel bad about it
22:50 < mattsenat> ah no worries
22:50 < mattsenat> I think you signed up as a "follower"
22:50 < mattsenat> rather than a "participant"
22:50 < mattsenat> meaning you don't get email notifications!
22:50 <@   greg-g> hello p2pu-apgoldst 
22:50 < mattsenat> it's a problem of the system
22:51 < p2pu-apgo> oh... that must be it. I was hoping for an email.. oops
22:51 < p2pu-apgo> can I change my status still?
22:51 < mattsenat> yes you can!
22:51 < mattsenat> if not, email me and I'll get it changed mattsenate@gmail.com
22:52 <      tvol> hi there p2pu-apgoldst
22:52 < mattsenat> FYI anna, we're going to post the text of this chat and keep a record from here on out
22:53 < p2pu-apgo> great!
22:53 < mattsenat> but to summarize today, we started to hash out a few articles that at least we three would like to work on
22:53 < mattsenat> and you are welcome to join
22:53 < p2pu-apgo> I actually can't stay long tonight, but I'm glad I happened to remember while you're all here
22:53 < p2pu-apgo> and I'm totally in for next week
22:53 < p2pu-apgo> what articles are you thinking about?
22:53 < mattsenat> ah great!
22:54 < mattsenat> well first, you should sing up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:United_States_Education_Program/Courses/Wikipedia:_Aim_for_Featured_Article#Students
22:55 < mattsenat> and as for the articles, they are Open Education, Open Educational Resources, and Open Curriculum
22:55 < mattsenat> err... is it Open Source Curriculum?
22:55 <@   greg-g> yeah
22:55 <@   greg-g> and, uh, I put a banner on Free Education as well :/
22:55 < mattsenat> horray!
22:55 < mattsenat> committments
22:55 <@   greg-g> :)
22:56 < mattsenat> greg can you add them to the course page too?
22:56 < mattsenat> the ones you flagged
22:56 <@   greg-g> will do
22:56 < mattsenat> FYI he's adding them here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:United_States_Education_Program/Courses/Wikipedia:_Aim_for_Featured_Article#Articles
22:57 < p2pu-apgo> gotcha
22:58 < p2pu-apgo> okay, i think I'm a participant now, and I'm on the student list
22:58 < mattsenat> great
22:58 < mattsenat> I approved you
22:58 < p2pu-apgo> awesome, thanks
22:58 < mattsenat> maybe in our last few minutes, since we have this all posted on-wiki and can look later, we can introduce ourselves?
22:58 <@   greg-g> sounds good
22:58 < p2pu-apgo> sure thing
22:59 < mattsenat> I'm Matt Senate, heading up facilitation here, from LA originally, I live in the bay area, and I do lots of projects like courses on p2pu and digitalcitizenproject.org
22:59 < mattsenat> eek, http://digitalcitizensproject.org/
22:59 < p2pu-apgo> I'm a grad student in chemistry, originally from north carolina. my research is on semiconducting nanowires, and I'm generally interested in all things renewable energy
23:00 < p2pu-apgo> I've never done p2pu or anything like it, so this is all new to me
23:00 < mattsenat> oh and maybe share your Wikipedia experience
23:00 <      tvol> whoa cool p2pu-apgoldst
23:00 <@   greg-g> hello, I'm Greg Grossmeier. I work at Creative Commons (with tvol) on education-related things.
23:01 <@   greg-g> I'm at http://grossmeier.net for more info :)
23:01 <@   greg-g> nice to meet you p2pu-apgoldst 
23:01 < p2pu-apgo> oh my name is Anna, by the way :) and I blog occasionally at sciencereview.berkeley.edu
23:01 < p2pu-apgo> nice to meet you too, Greg
23:02 <@   greg-g> very cool (re: Science Review)
23:02 < mattsenat> tvol may recognize your work since I showed the wikiwomen post at a workshop on monday where Tim was@
23:03 <      tvol> i'm tvol. my name is timothy. i'm a newbie to actually editing wikipedia. i work with greg-g. i live in San Francisco and am originally from the midwest (wisco)
23:03 <@   greg-g> (btw, just listed those articles on the course wikipage, with my, matt's, and tvol's names next to them. I didn't want to assume anything on Anna's behalf ;) )
23:03 < p2pu-apgo> oh cool! that post got a lot of attention, for sure
23:03 < p2pu-apgo> haha, I'll put mine
23:04 <      tvol> wait greg-g where you looking?
23:05 < p2pu-apgo> actually, do you mind if I just jump onto one of them? I don't want to bite off more than i can chew at this point, since I haven't been participating til now
23:05 < mattsenat> okay people, I've got to run at this time, but it was a great session this week, let's see if we can grow by next week (it's still not too late to join and I'm willing to help newbies individually)
23:05 < mattsenat> no worries
23:05 <      tvol> thanks mattsenate
23:05 < mattsenat> as a goal for this week
23:06 < mattsenat> let's leave a substantial comment, resource, reference/citation, or even an edit on some article that we'd like to pursue major edits on
23:06 <@   greg-g> tvol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:United_States_Education_Program/Courses/Wikipedia:_Aim_for_Featured_Article  under the articles section near the bottom
23:06 < mattsenat> and we'll touch base about them at the beginning of next session!
23:06 < p2pu-apgo> okay thanks Matt! nice to meet you all
23:07 <@   greg-g> mattsenate: email that goal of the comment/resource/whatever to all particpants :)
23:07 <@   greg-g> laterz!